Last week I mentioned that kid-and-food expert Ellyn Satter, known for her emphasis on not pressuring children at meal times, included in her definition of “pressure” keeping after your child to use her silverware or napkin. At my request, she went on to clarify that this advice
has to do with making eating unpleasant. Children are entitled to enjoy their meals and will eat and learn best when they do that. Children push themselves along to eat the way their parents eat. Keeping after them about table manners takes away their pleasure in eating and interferes with their learning.
Jamie, a loyal TLT reader, commented as follows (shortened for space):
. . . . I find myself riled up somehow, by Satter’s words or maybe just my interpretation of them. Certainly there’s an age cut off somewhere. Yes, when a child is LEARNING to eat, all forms of eating and lack of table manners are acceptable. But is dinner and eating just meant to be a hedonistic event of slurping and snarfing? . . . . I guess what’s bugging me is how far do we take this concept of “not making things unpleasant”. Are we here to raise civilized humans or just make our kids lives as pleasant as possible? Maybe I’m thinking too black or white here. Don’t get me wrong; we have tons of great fun. But to sacrifice manners for making dinner not unpleasant doesn’t seem right either. . . .
And another longtime reader, Em, also feared that this laissez faire attitude might result in some really disgusting table behavior.
I went back and re-read the manners passages in Child of Mine, one of Satter’s books, and have two things to add to clarify her views. First, at least in that book, she is clearly more focused on the toddler and preschool child than the older, school-aged child. And second, she does say that part of making meal times pleasant is not tolerating “deliberately provocative” behavior, even among this very young age group.
But even with respect to the older child, I believe that Satter would say (and she indicated as much in an email to me) that with respect to any behavior at the table, whether it’s eating vegetables or putting one’s napkin on one’s lap, children learn far better by osmosis – by observing your behavior – than through any overt parental pressure, which more often than not can backfire.
The challenge, of course — and this leads me back to my very first post about Satter — is that achieving success through this type of implicit instruction (versus overt parental commands) can seem to take a glacially long period of time. So long, in fact, that you start to wonder if Satter’s whole approach is wrong-headed and you find yourself lamenting all those missed opportunities over the years to lecture and goad your kids.
But do you want to hear something really funny? If you’ve ever read my “About” page on this site, you know that my son doesn’t eat veggies and my daughter won’t touch a sandwich, regardless of what’s between the bread. Well, yesterday (and I swear I’m not making this up for dramatic effect), my daughter totally took me aback when she ordered at lunch a roasted chicken sandwich (she claims to hate chicken, by the way) with all sorts of strongly-flavored toppings like raw red onions, pesto, tapenade, vinaigrette and the like. And then she proceeded to eat every bite.
Just as I was recovering from that shock, guess what my son did at dinner? He nonchalantly picked up a corn cob and started nibbling away, declaring off-handedly, “I’ve always liked corn.” (NOT!)
After a day like that, I was seriously expecting the heavens to part and a shaft of golden light to beam down on the dinner table.
But who’s to say what’s really behind this food miracle? Was it my general use of Ellyn Satter’s hands-off approach for the last decade? Was it the exact opposite – i.e, the times when I “slipped” from the Satter plan and shouted, “Just eat your damned vegetables!!!” (OK, I never said exactly that, but I certainly have been so frustrated at times that I’ve lectured and pressured.) Or was it just the passage of time, a development that would have occurred no matter what anyone did or said at the table over the years?
I know only one thing: now I’ve got to go and revise my “About” page.
{ 8 comments… read them below or add one }
Kids do grow up.
When I was a child I wouldn’t eat peas if you paid me, and they tried. Now, no problem, if I cook them and they are not from a can.
Sometimes it is a texture thing. The sensation something makes in your mouth. As you get older, sometimes you get over it.
I do hope you didn’t make to big a fuss over the sandwich and corn. That might backfire.
I also think that a certain level of behavior is expected by a certain age. If you take your kids out to eat or to a relatives for a nice sit down dinner you have the right to not want to be totally embarassed by your childs manners. I’d say that by 6 they should be well on their way to learning civilized behavior at the table(please and thank you, using a fork). By 10 they can fill their own plate and pass the dishes around the table and even participate very well in the conversation. My kids hated it if they were put at a kids table at family gatherings.
I’ve even set the ages a bit high, I think…maybe as early as 3 and 7. The 3 yr olds I teach are pretty good with a fork and the please and thank you by the end of the school year and we carry on a conversation at the lunch table.
Viki -I agree with all that you’ve said. And yes, you’d be very proud of me. Remembering Jamie’s previous advice about potty training, I remained very Zen (even though inside I was shouting with joy!) – Bettina
Since you brought potty training into the conversation, I’ll add this: often times parents are just on their kids too much. I see this again and again: the kid wakes up on Day Four of training and does his business like it’s been his idea to begin with. Meanwhile the parent has developed an ulcer and is completely gray in three days time. I have to tell them to let the kid have it…
It just reminded me off your kids…which by the way: YAY!!!
It’s long been my parenting philosophy that kids don’t do what you say, they do what you do.
But endless nagging just makes us feel better. I use a carefully balanced mix. Since Pascal is only four, I’ll let you know how this works out.
However, I am saving for therapy, not college
Hallelujah! I will try to adjust my attitude and timeline.
I did notice a big step up in food maturity following my 10 year old’s return from sleepaway, but she was already pretty easy to deal with in this regard.
I loved reading all the posts and comments. That was great you got Satter to respond. This really made my morning, I’ll be back!
I am currently entrenched in Satter material and have a few concerns/questions about her philosophy. First of all, she doesn’t really seem that concerned about what I would consider healthy eating (I realize this is different for everyone, but I would never consider hot dogs or bacon to be remotely healthy but she seems to mention both as viable options for young children without addressing how unhealthy they are). Second, I realize that any attempt at influencing is recognized as coercion but I don’t love the idea of allowing as much bread as my daughter asks for. I’d rather just offer the veggies first. If, for example, I give my daughter carrots and hummus for snack, she will eat a lot of both. If I offer carrots, pretzels, and hummus, then she will eat a lot of pretzels and few carrots. That applies to dinner also. If I don’t offer bread, she will eat veggies (at least some, usually), but if I offer bread then she will only eat the bread and continue asking for it. Last, I am having trouble figuring out how to help my daughter self-regulate at EVERY stinkin’ playdate or school day when she is given some kind of junk food. At school, I’m not there and her teachers always say that she eats a lot. At other functions, I always feel like the food police and that I’m being too controlling (I never say she can’t have anything, usually just set limits for her on how much to have).
Sorry to ramble, I’m just wondering if any of these types of issues came up in your correspondence with Ellyn Satter, or if you have any thoughts.
MamaRaif – I have had all these seditious thoughts about Satter — and more!
I do firmly believe in her precepts of one meal for the whole family, no short order cooking, and parental responsibility for deciding what to serve (though offering kids input is fine). And I do believe she’s right that you must not override a child’s internal cues of fullness by urging “one more bite” or a clean plate, etc. But beyond that … not always clear what has worked and what hasn’t on this long road with my “selective eater.” And the longer I’m at this feeding kids thing, the more I wonder how much really has to do with maturity vs. anything I do or don’t do. See this post if you haven’t, by the way. I’d love your thoughts!
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