Chris Liebig was a former classmate of mine at both college and law school, yet somehow, despite attending the same schools together for years on end, we never actually met! Then, a few months ago, Chris connected with me through The Lunch Tray to discuss an issue that’s of serious concern to many readers of this blog: the ridiculously short amount of time allotted for students to eat lunch at many schools. Chris has his own blog, as he describes below, and I asked him if he would be willing to share here his efforts to try to improve this situation in his Iowa City school district, where he is now the parent of three children and teaches legal writing and analysis at the University of Iowa College of Law (but the opinions he expresses here are entirely his own). Here is his guest blog post:
The Incredible Shrinking Lunch Period
by Chris Liebig
When my oldest daughter started kindergarten, I was surprised to find out how short the school’s lunch period was: a measly fifteen minutes to get in and get out. Sometimes I’d mention it to other parents, and they were puzzled by it, too, but then the conversation would move on. Maybe we figured that the school administrators must have a reason, must know what they’re doing. Maybe we just thought there was nothing we could do about it.
Five years went by, and two more of my kids went off to kindergarten. I gradually realized that our school system didn’t think of education in the same way I did. What I saw as the goals of a good education — for example, encouraging the kids to be curious, to ask good questions, to take initiative, and to find pleasure in learning about the world around them — didn’t seem to be shared by this school system. More and more it seemed like the district’s only goals were to raise the kids’ standardized test scores and to teach them to fear authority — both of which, I’ll admit, they did quite well. I started blogging to talk about those issues. And when another parent circulated a letter — which turned into a petition — arguing that our kids need more than fifteen minutes to eat a healthy lunch, I jumped at the opportunity to sign on.
So did dozens of other parents. Many people were surprised to learn that school lunches were so short, compared to when they had gone to school. Some recounted stories of how, as children, they had had enough time to walk home, eat a homemade lunch, and then walk back to school. Others (including me) told of how their kids came home hungry every day, or finished their lunches on the walk home from school. (This was often an apple. When kids have to eat fast, it’s not the apple that gets eaten.)
My Lebanese-American friend was flabbergasted to learn that the school system would treat lunch like a pit-stop at the Indy 500. Meals aren’t just about cramming food into your mouth as quickly as you can, she said. They’re an essential part of culture, a time for connecting with friends and enjoying life. As people pointed out, kids learn things at lunch, too — about social interaction, about manners, about eating. But I like to think that we give kids a lunch period not because it’s educational, but because they’re people who deserve social time over a meal just like adult people do.
We soon found out that things were even worse than we had imagined. The fifteen minutes for lunch often included the time spent coming, going, waiting in line, and cleaning up. Lunch was usually followed by recess, but recess periods were being cut back, too. One parent signed the petition with this comment:
I ate lunch with my son last year for his birthday and what was more appalling to me than the 15 minute lunch was the fact that in the middle of winter his class filed in the lunch room in full winter gear, boots, snow pants, and coats zipped with their hats and gloves shoved down the inside. We were told that there was no time to get dressed for recess so they had to sit and not only eat very quickly but do so while roasting. It still upsets me to think about.
How had it come to this? How could a school full of professional educators have marched kids into the lunchroom in their snow pants and parkas, and no one thought anything was wrong? How could my first-grader — six years old! — be getting an hour of math instruction every day and less than fifteen minutes to sit and eat her lunch?
At a meeting with concerned parents, the school superintendent sympathized with our concerns, but explained how much pressure the administrators were under, because of No Child Left Behind, to raise standardized test scores. As a result, administrators felt that they had to add instructional time to the day, and there were only so many places to find those minutes. Hence the disappearing lunch and recess.
Never mind that a lot of this made no sense whatsoever. Do hungry kids learn better? Do kids from economically struggling families — who might be getting their best meal of the day at school — benefit academically from being rushed through that meal? Is there any evidence that giving kids time to eat a decent lunch, and time for physical activity and social interaction, would hurt, rather than help, their academic performance? Is it a good idea to teach unhealthy eating habits to kids in a country suffering from an epidemic of childhood obesity? Is there no sacrifice we shouldn’t make in the name of raising test scores?
I wish there were a happy ending to this story. But after listening sympathetically to our concerns, the superintendent issued a new policy: henceforth, the kids would have “no less than fifteen minutes” to eat — which in practice has meant that kids still sometimes end up with only ten minutes. Oh, and kids would no longer be made to wear their winter clothes to lunch — the time for getting dressed would be taken out of their recess instead. Meanwhile, the superintendent argued that the best solution would be to lengthen the school day.
On my blog, I challenged anyone to prove that Iowa City doesn’t have the shortest lunch periods in America. (For the sake of your kids, I hope you can’t meet that challenge.) I’ve continued to talk about the issue to anyone who’ll listen; five of our seven school board seats are up for election this year, and I’ve written to all of the candidates asking their position on the issue. (You can read about the interactions that other parents and I have had with our local officials on the issue in this series of posts.) But I can’t say I’m optimistic that anything will change. I’m afraid our kids aren’t people anymore: they’re data points.
What’s it like out there in the rest of the country? Are your kids getting enough time to eat lunch?
Copyright secured by Digiprove © 2011 Bettina Elias Siegel
Kate says
Chris, thanks for writing this piece, and bringing this issue to the attention of others.
To Bettina….thanks for posting it here.
CarolineSF says
Bettina and Chris, it’s important to understand that educators aren’t the ones who think insanely short lunches are a good idea. As this commentary mentions, they are under intense (seriously intense, crushing) pressure from the non-educators who control our nation’s education policy.
The truncated lunches are part of a bigger picture. As a public education advocate and founding member of Parents Across America, I’m one of many who are speaking up for empowering parents and educators to set the direction for our education policy — not the billionaires, hedge-funders and corporate titans who are currently driving it. (All of whom, by the way, send their kids to private schools that operate in the exact opposite manner of the schools these powerful people advocate for OTHER people’s children. I guarantee that if we check into the length of the lunch period at Sidwell Friends, where President Obama’s daughters go, it’ll be a lot longer than 15 minutes.)
Join us at http://www.parentsacrossamerica.org.
Bettina Elias Siegel says
CarolineSF: No disagreement here. The whole system puts unbelievably intense pressure on teachers, resulting in all sorts of unintended consequences like the standardized test cheating scandals, schools cutting into recess, etc. etc. My own children have been subjected to relentless test prep, bribery, teacher-induced guilt trips and even overt falsehoods designed to boost their performance on the standardized test that’s linked to school rating/teacher performance. (Yet when it comes to the Stanford test, which has no bearing on these issues but which is important to parents because it plays a role in middle school acceptance, we get, like, two days of casual review.) What I like about Chris’s blog is that he is addressing so many of these issues – definitely, as you say, the problem is not just rushed lunches.
Chris Liebig says
I agree completely, CarolineSF. There’s nothing I’d rather see than educational policymaking put back into the hands of the people who are most likely to treat kids as individual human beings — that is, their parents and teachers, preferably at as local a level as possible.
Mary Lawton says
Thank you so much for posting this, I am sure it’s been a burning issue in most US schools since the beginning of NCLB. There is also the issue of overcrowded lunch period in the middle and high schools, where just getting to the line to eat is a skill one has to practice day after day! My son missed lunch on the first day of school this year (9th grade) because of the crowds but wanted to buy lunch this week as now he’s “figured out” how to get to the lunch line in time. Once he gets the lunch, by the way, he eats it standing up as all the seats are taken. It’s uncivilized, uncouth, and will never help our kids understand that eating is a more sacred act than shoving it in as fast as you can.
Bettina Elias Siegel says
Oh, Mary – HORRIBLE!
Kate says
I live in the same district as Chris Liebig, so I have been following this issue for a while.
CarolineSF, I appreciate your comment about the outside pressures that might influence the decisions a district makes.
Ultimately though, this decision was made by the superintendent. Our school board has been virtually silent on the issue, even though they know many families are not on board with this decision. Even some candidates for our upcoming school board election aren’t certain if the issue of time for school lunches is an appropriate board matter.
If educators, as you say, aren’t on board with the idea with the idea of insanely short lunches…I wouldn’t know that because as far as I know our local educators have been silent on this issue as well.
Renee says
Kate, I wonder if the teachers are silent because their jobs depend on the good will of the school system they work for? Being an agitator can be dangerous, especially if you’re supporting a family and really need that job.
EdT. says
Just as likely, they understand that “failure to perform” on the NCLB-mandated high-stakes test means their job is likely to go *poof*. We actually have the legal expectation of staff turnover in the event a school doesn’t perform up to expectations.
Yes, fear of firing can be a POWERFUL motivator.
~EdT.
Chris Liebig says
I have to agree with Kate here. Ultimately this decision is made by the superintendent and the principals. It’s true that they’re acting within a system that’s not of their own creation, but the “I was only following orders” defense really only goes so far, especially on an issue like this one, where they do have some discretion.
We’ve got a school board election next week, and I’ve been very disappointed at how little concern the candidates have expressed about the effects of No Child Left Behind on our schools. In my view, they should be furious about what NCLB is doing to public education, and should be leading the charge against it, not least because they are tasked with carrying out some of its worst features.
As CarolineSF points out, the changes we most need are not going to come from the top down. They’re only going to come from people at the local level putting up some resistance.
As for the teachers, Renee is right that they probably feel understandably reluctant to speak up in a way that would be critical of their administrators’ decisions. But what a crazy system we have, if the people closest to the day-to-day reality of school are essentially excluded from the public debate over how we educate our kids. This is another place where school boards should step up — to give teachers contractual guarantees that they can speak freely on policy issues without fear of repercussions, or at least to provide avenues for anonymous (but publicly accessible) commentary on policy issues. (I wrote more on that topic here and here.) And teachers should be given much more of a role in creating school policy in the first place.
Kate says
Our teachers have made their opinions known, through the local teachers’ union. Our newspaper today had a short blurb about who they are endorsing. None of the candidates they are endorsing seem like the lunch issue is a priority. The one incumbent has been silent on the issue, as far as I know.
Diane Pratt-Heavner, SNA says
School Nutrition Association’s “State of School Nutrition 2011” survey (http://www.schoolnutrition.org/Blog.aspx?id=15955&blogid=564) found that the typical lunch period clocks in around 25 minutes for elementary schools and 30 minutes for middle and high schools. But kids need some of that time to run to the bathroom, stop by their lockers and get through the lunch line, cutting into their time to eat.
These short lunch periods can impact school menuing decisions. Wonder why many schools serve pre-packaged salads instead of having a salad bar? In addition to food safety concerns, the additional time it takes to move students through a salad bar can rob kids of the precious minutes they need to actually eat their salad. Likewise, many schools are offering portion-sized bags of baby carrots and apple slices. Schools have found it takes kids longer to chew those raw carrot sticks and apples – time that kids might not have if the lunch period is too short. When fresh fruits and vegetables are packaged to-go, kids are more likely to save them for an afternoon snack than dump them in the trash on their way to recess.
Diane Pratt-Heavner
School Nutrition Association
Bettina Elias Siegel says
Diane: Thank you for coming by – you make a very important point about the difficulties food service departments face in feeding children well when time is at such a premium.
Barry says
Diane,
The survey was most likely a reported answer of how long of a lunch period do students have. A better survey would be to find out how much time students actually have to sit and eat the food. A 30 minute scheduled lunch period by the school most likely is less than 10 minutes of seat time to eat. Schools have cut down the amount of time to the point where students are not even able to eat the foods that they are choosing. I have seen cafeterias where the students are rushed out after as little as 4-6 minutes and are still chewing the food as they are leaving the building. With such little time, children will pick the quickest and easiest foods to eat. And many schools will NOT allow ANY foods to leave the cafeteria even packaged foods.
I hope more parents will contact the local school, visit and see how much time is actually made available for students to eat.
SNA could advocate for seat time much the same way of ERP of a few years ago and storm the hill?
Good Day~
Mrs. Q says
I only take issue with your last sentence — in many schools kids are not allowed to save fruit and veggies for snacks due to concerns about spoilage and rodent/bug infestation. I have seen kids try to take their orange out of the lunch room only to be met with a massive garbage bag and an angry adult demanding they pitch them before they leave.
Barry says
Chris,
Thank you very much for you post, blog and comments. Having been a Elementary School Food Service Director for 16 years, I can certainly attest and echo your comments and concerns. Often when a parent would call and complain, I was always polite but explain that it was NOT the cafeteria that makes the time decision and for them to contact the school office. Not only do the children have a difficult time with such a limited amount of time, but the kitchen operation is also a challenge with keeping up at this fast of a pace.
I conducted surveys amongst all of my school kitchens to determine a “rate of service.” Ask a cafeteria manager or Director how fast do you serve and they will answer “as fast as we can.” But exactly how fast is that? After our study we set a standard by which we were able to use. K-3 students: 1 = 10 seconds, 4-6: 1=8 seconds, 7/8: 1=6 seconds. There is NO fast food place that can match the speed of many of the school food service operations. And unless the FS department even knows how long it takes to serve a meal, the blame still points to the kitchen as the problem for how long it takes. Using this service time standard, I was able to show a school principal that the time allowed was not enough. Ex: 6 classes with 30 per class = 180 students. 180 x 8 seconds / 60 sec = 24 minutes. So the LAST student at the end of the LAST class in line, moving at @ 8 sec pace will stand in line for 24 minutes JUST to get the food. So when a school says the students have a 30 min lunch period, NO way are they able to have the suggested/recommended seat time of 10 minutes for breakfast and 20 minutes for lunch.
Parents need to contact the local schools to see first hand how much time is actually available to eat the food. Adults get 30, 45 or even an hour for lunch so why not children. And it is more than just calories consumed.
Good Day~
EdT. says
When I was in Basic Training (years ago), we learned NEVER to arrive last in line for chow – as we would spend most of our time in that line, and get maybe 5 minutes to actually eat. (And, btw, I think that basic training camps can come close to matching the service times you quoted.) And, there were things (approaching, but not quite to the level of, committing actual acts of violence) we would do to get ahead of others in the line. Not quite the lesson I think we should be teaching our children…
Chris Liebig says
Barry — That’s a great perspective on the issue. I don’t envy the people charged with dishing out the meals in this system. And I agree that when it comes to stated lunch times, parents need to “trust but verify” — and to start the clock at the time the last kid in line sits down.
CarolineSF says
Here’s an interesting commentary by an educator lamenting the fact that educators have barely fought back — have tried to “go along to get along” instead:
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2011/08/31/no-child-left-behind-a-conspiracy-against-public-education-that-too-few-called-out/?cxntfid=blogs_get_schooled_blog
Chris Liebig says
CarolineSF — I may have to write in Jim Arnold and CarolineSF in our school board election next week.
CarolineSF says
Awww.
EdT. says
Short(ened) lunch periods are one of my pet peeves, as well. I do remind folks that NCLB had its origins in legislation passed in Texas during the 1980s (under then-Gov Mark White) where, in exchange for teacher raises/bonuses, standardized tests were instituted to “measure” teacher “effectiveness”. And, in order to prevent the students from deliberately throwing the test (in order to “get back” at unpopular teachers) they had to have skin in the game, as well – thus the “no pass – no promote” rule. Since then, we have seen a reduction in such things as lunch time and recess (though there is a requirement for REGIMENTED EXERCISE at all grade levels.)
The lunch room, last time I visited it, was horrid. Not only were the kids trying to inhale their food before they were marched out and back to class, but any form of conversation was PROHIBITED – including with their parents! (I simply would not go back after seeing this – and I let the principal know why. Last time I saw that crap was in Basic Military Training, and to the best of my knowledge training our children to be professional killers is NOT the mission of the public school system. Maybe the prisons are run the same way – I wouldn’t know, never having been inside of one myself.)
~EdT.
Chris Liebig says
EdT — In our school, the rules about “voice levels” at lunch are also needlessly restrictive and punitive, as I describe here. The comparison to a military academy, or an obedience school for dogs, has occurred to me, too.
Maggie says
Yes, short meal times are a huge part of the issue!
As much as I wish that would change, I do see some of the issues that administrators and others who are in charge of making the decisions face.
It is likely going to cost money to provide a longer meal period. If the school day is longer, teachers will need to be on duty longer and will likely want a higher salary. Support staff (classroom aides, office staff) might need longer hours as well. Who supervises the students during the meal/recess time? Assuming teachers are duty-free and have their own meal break at the same time as students, then other staff must be hired and paid to supervise students.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree 100% that the atmosphere (lack thereof?) during the meal time is crazy. Barry has touched on the speed of service expected (not a lot of time to chat/educate about the foods offered!). Not to mention, when around 100 students are “turned loose” at the door by teachers after being in the classroom all morning…well, the sound level & activity isn’t exactly conducive to a relaxing meal.
I think most food service professionals are aware of it. My question is, who can we get on “our side”? How do we sell the benefit of a longer meal period to those who can make the decisions and make the change?
CarolineSF says
I think that change has to come as part of returning education decisions to educators and parents — people who care about and work with kids. Our current toxic education policy environment disdains the views of those who are the closest to students and classrooms in favor of the policies chosen by those with power and money.
Chris Liebig says
Maggie — I disagree that it would necessarily cost money to extend the lunch period. What it would take is a recognition that our priorities have become distorted. My first-grade daughter last year had sixty minutes of math instruction, five days a week, but only fifteen minutes or less for lunch. Does a first grader — a six-year-old! — really need an hour of math every day?
In Finland, kids start school at a later age, and spend fewer hours in class, yet their test scores (for what they’re worth) are better than ours. A fifth-grader in Finland gets about forty-five minutes of math instruction, three times a week. If we could admit to ourselves that piling instructional hours on the kids is not the same as educating them, it wouldn’t be that hard to make lunch periods humane again.
Maggie says
I understand what you are saying. So, your thought is that the answer isn’t to extend the day, but to convince the powers-that-be that the mealtime is important and to take time from somewhere else in the school day?
Thanks – it’s a viewpoint I hadn’t heard before. Sadly, there are still challenges (not trying to dig up negatives – I’m fully on board with the idea of a longer meal time) – if the cafeteria isn’t big enough, longer meals (slower turnover) could be a challenge. (“My” cafeteria is a gym 10 minutes after breakfast is over up until 10 minutes before lunch starts.) If teachers are on duty-free time, some sort of supervision/guidance still needs to be provided…
Lots to think of. Hmm, haven’t I read or heard of people inviting administrators to eat within the time provided to students?
Chris Liebig says
I can’t argue with that — there are definitely going to be logistical challenges to expanding lunch in buildings with limited space for eating. But not all buildings will have those challenges. And somehow we managed to pull it off pretty routinely forty years ago.
I’d also agree that more money could only help (like with so many other school issues). Lower class sizes, higher teacher-student rations, better facilities — would open up a lot of opportunities, if people cared enough to take advantage of them.
I have three friends who withdrew from our local public elementaries this year and sent their kids to private schools. These aren’t high-end prep schools, just little private schools that run about $7000 – 8000 per year. They’ve been telling me about the 11-kid classes and their half-hour-long lunches which they eat outdoors when the weather is nice. No one complains that lunch is too long or that the kids need more instructional minutes. I’d consider it for my own kids, if it weren’t for the fact that I’d have to raid their college funds to do it.
Mrs. Q says
Chris,
There’s no way they would cut math from your child’s day. They would rather cut recess, art, music, gym, or any extracurriculars before they would sacrifice math. You’ve got some valid points, but cutting math would get you nowhere with administration! 🙂
Loved your guest post BTW!
Thanks,
Mrs Q
Chris Liebig says
You may be right, Mrs. Q, but that doesn’t mean it makes any sense. Again, if math were forty-five minutes a day, and lunch were a half-hour, nobody would be complaining that lunch needed to get shortened in favor of more math. The fact that math is sixty minutes, five days a week, for a six-year-old reflects very simplistic, more-is-always-better preconceptions about how kids learn. (I’m not saying those are your preconceptions; I realize you’re just doing a reality check.)
I know our superintendent would like to solve this problem by lengthening the school day and then having a longer lunch. But how long do you think it would be before *that* lunch got shortened to fifteen minutes? After all, you could take that extra time and use it for more math!
Chris Liebig says
And to take that grip one step further: Why do “they” get to decide what our kids’ school day looks like? Why don’t “we” (that is, we, the people of my community) get to decide?
When the petition organizer had a piece in our local paper about the fifteen-minute lunch period, the article drew dozens of comments, and they were virtually unanimous that fifteen minutes was too short. If our school policies were really responsive to our community’s values, we would never have seen lunch periods this short.
Which keeps bringing me back to: give us back local control over our schools!
Maggie says
Chris, I know, each building is different. The complication might come up if this type of discussion turns into a rule/regulation – then it becomes an issue.
It can also cause hard feelings and conflict in situations (where there really doesn’t need to be conflict) where one school in an area is able to have a longer meal time and another one can’t. We’ve discussions about other topics (and covered very well by Dana Woldow on her site) as to why sometimes what works at one school doesn’t work at another. The devil is in the details sometimes.
Bri says
Chris, it’s funny you say this. We’ve just made the decision as a family to take a financial detour by enrolling our kids in the neighborhood Catholic school when they reach school age (already made a deposit for NEXT year, actually, since spots are scarce). One of the big reasons? Recess. They still have it. Lunchtime — 25 or 30 minutes (school secretary couldn’t remember which) — rather than 20, and no hot lunch program to slow things down. We have friends whose kids are going to the public kindergarten (only 1/2 day) with the “wraparound” enrichment program for the rest of the day; their little ones are already stressed out because they have just 2.75 hours in school, during which they’re basically being trampled on with mountains of “instruction,” and the wraparound program gives just 20 minutes for lunch while foregoing rest time in favor of “reading instruction” and “homework help.” Homework. In Kindergarten. We had to really gulp and take that tuition hit, because I can’t subject my 5-year-old to that kind of pressure.
Chris Liebig says
Bri — Unbelievable. The country is just taking its fears and neuroses out on defenseless kids. The increasing assignment of homework at younger and younger ages is just another example.
CarolineSF says
In the big picture, the educational system in Finland works in the opposite way in almost every way from the current trend in U.S. education (the trend driven by non-educators). Another huge difference is that the U.S. has the highest child poverty rate in the industrialized world, while Finland’s is very low.
Mrs. Q says
That’s sobering, CarolineSF. Wow.
Viki says
Waldorf schools don’t start reading instruction until later either. My friends who have started their kids off in Waldorf say it is a laid back creative environment. Unfortunately it doesn’t go past 6th grade around here so they have to enter the “rat race”. Most do just fine. Others go to private schools.
Why can’t school be enjoyable, learning be fun, kids be excited about learning?
For my 12th grader it is all about the administration getting the school on the Newsweek top 1000 school list by making sure the high school kids are taking the max number of AP classes and if they aren’t, trying to make them feel guilty for not doing so by telling them they will never get into the college of their choice with “a schedule like that!”
For the record my daughter is taking 3 AP classes, 1 dual credit college course, another science and an online class as well. She has more work than I ever had in college. She eats lunch in a teachers room where she has access to a microwave and can do homework or read so as to not fall behind.
Amy says
That’s for the guest post. I too will be voting in the upcoming Iowa City school board elections and will be reading all of the pieces you link to.
I don’t have children (yet?), but in the event that I do I am trying to be proactive in how the community’s schools operate or else I too will be opting for private schools.
Chris Liebig says
Amy — That’s great that you’re following the school election even though you don’t have any kids — pretty uncommon, I think. After all, we all have to live in a world populated by the people who go through these schools . . .
Amy says
Well I should add that my husband is high school teacher (though in a different district than IC), so it isn’t too hard to follow education issues. I definitely am more opinionated about these things than he is though.
Katie B says
Wow… 15 minutes! What a shame… and standardized testing, what a revolting way to judge the merit of a school system (more specifically ~ an individual educator) I was horrified to find out from a family friend who was a Special Education teacher a few years ago (who is now my sons 7th grade, general Ed., Language Arts teacher), that the BOE pays for the special Ed teachers to go to a 3 day long In Service, instructing them how to get their Spec. Ed. students to pass the NJ ASK (my jaw drops to think of it). Everybody calls it “teaching to the test.” This is the kind of pressure these teachers are under. In our rural community, someone had posted a teachers name and her “success rate” (or lack thereof) in getting her class to pass the ASK, on a commercial billboard… it was a failing mark by any standard. And she was outed like she had kidnapped the mayors only child!!!! Who am I to judge her peformance???? She could have had a class of slower learning children who were pressured into fitting into the same molds as the accelerated students!!! (or a class of “behavior challenged” Middle Schoolers who could care less about taking a test) Sad that this is what education has come to in an effort to make sure that no child is “left behind”… This is the underlying issue right here ~ too much emphasis on penciling in the correct letter circle and not enough student driven cirriculum. Aren’t there more important things being left behind?? (sorry for my overuse of puncuation ~ I get so irritated just to think about it)
Chris Liebig says
Katie B — Wow, amazing story. And you wonder why fewer and fewer people want to go into teaching.
CarolineSF says
The Los Angeles Times broke new journalistic ground (and disgraceful journalistic ground, in my view as a longtime newspaper editor) in publishing LA teachers’ “results” in the same way:
“… someone had posted a teachers name and her “success rate” (or lack thereof) in getting her class to pass the ASK, on a commercial billboard… it was a failing mark by any standard. And she was outed like she had kidnapped the mayors only child!!!! Who am I to judge her peformance???? …”
One respected LAUSD teacher who had reportedly helped improve the life of many impoverished Latino children committed suicide after he was publicized in the newspaper as a “less effective teacher.”
It amazes me that anyone would consider this acceptable, and yet it’s viewed as this great new initiative — bold, new, thinking outside the box.
This all contributes to the kind of pressure — all coming from non-educators who arrogantly think they have all the answers even though they actually have no clue — that means kids have to gulp lunch in 10 minutes.
CarolineSF says
Though it’s ironic, Bri — I was visiting a local Catholic boys’ high school a couple of years ago, long after our school district had banished soda and junk food. OMG, it was junk food heaven. There was a whole bank of soda, ice cream, candy and chip machines right next to the cafeteria counter — just what teenage boys need! My son was with me and joked that he wanted to enroll there right away. It was like they were a few decades behind on the nutrition awareness. I assume schools vary, though that was surprising for a school in foodie San Francisco.
(BTW, Iowa Citians — I spent a nice day and evening there last April visiting the college with my 17yo daughter and just soaking up the atmosphere in a lively college town. Love it!)
Bri says
I know, Caroline! That’s one of the drawbacks, I think — not in this particular school, because the only food-related thing is a once-a-week relationship with a neighborhood bakery to bring in pizza if the kids want to buy it, and I can breathe through that. 🙂 But I did say to my husband that if we sort of follow the path all the way up through the Catholic boys’ high school that might follow, there is DEFINITELY a less rigorous standard about what gets sold/served/brought onto campus! His response, though, was interesting: “True…NOW. But at these schools, the Parent Advisories have a huge role and a lot of authority. You could do something with that.” And he’s right. Of course, it means changing the minds of a lot of other parents, potentially — which I don’t mean to underplay in its difficulty, for sure! — but it also may mean finding others of like mind who are, well, less VOCAL than I am and would like to have somebody willing to stick their neck out for this. It’s an interesting dilemma, to be sure!
Chris Liebig says
In our school, they more and more frequently give out junk food — candy, bubble gum, licorice — as a reward for “good behavior.” It’s objectionable on so many levels, I don’t know where to begin.
But yes, CarolineSF, when I’m not complaining about our elementary school, I’m a big fan of Iowa City — it’s a great place to live.
Viki says
The grade school my girls went to had 25 minutes for lunch, BUT only because a long time ago some great power granted the principal the ability to change the start time to 8:55 in the morning instead of 9. (no other school in the county does this) Thus giving everyone an extra 5 minutes for lunch. What that really meant is that Everyone leaves the classroom and walks to the lunch room and gets into line in that 5 minutes. The lucky kids are the ones who brought their lunches from home and didn’t have to buy milk. They could go ahead and sit down and utilize almost 20 min. for actual eating and socializing. Of course, the lunch room “Nazi” I mean helper was always screaming about it being too loud. Of course it is loud! It is the ONLY chance they have for Free speech all day long.
In retrospect, as in if I could go back in time and do it all over again, I’d homeschool or do a small private. One child would do well in any environment and the other would have done better in a small setting. Nothing about public school is really about the children anymore, it is about how the school stacks up next to the other schools. Yes individual teachers may care, but in the end they have to do as they are told. (yes, I am feeling a bit bitter over some happenings this year and it has only been a few weeks.) My kids are older one is out of school the other is in 12th grade. I have a grandchild and I am so hoping we can keep him out of public school. The rat race starts young and it isn’t pretty.
Chris Liebig says
Viki — I know what you mean; our school’s obsessive focus on policing the kids’ “voice levels” at lunch just seems perverse. I’ve used that same term — “rat race” — to describe what elementary school is becoming. It’s not a recipe for producing people who enjoy learning.
Kate says
I appreciate the comments about the logistics involved in lengthening the lunch period.
What is frustrating though, is that our district would never have a conversation about what it might take to lengthen the lunch period.
When my oldest started school the lunch period was longer than 15 minutes. So, at least in our school, if it was done before, we can do it again.
Susan @WhyMommy says
Whoa! That’s incredible!
Thanks for opening my eyes —
Susan
Vicki Moreno says
Thanks Chris, for putting this important issue out there. My 11 yr old absolutely DREADS going to school this year in 6th grade. He says there is no time for anything, lunch included. This year, there is a 25% reduction in their lunch period, from 20 min. to 15 min. This is BELL to BELL time…meaning:
bell rings: pack up backpack, get lunch, run (oops, no running allowed…walk very fast) to bathroom, use toilet, wash hands, run/speedwalk to tables, sit down, open lunch box and … “GO!” – you’ve got 11 min to eat!
He always brings lunch, as waiting to purchase takes too much time. He is not a slow eater. The girls in his grade are complaining they don’t have enough time to eat – and that’s WITHOUT any conversation they say.
He is in a Lutheran school, starting at 7:55, out at 3pm, so adding another min. to the day is not an option. Neither is extending the year. Teachers don’t want that and neither do the kids.
I know they are facing competition to increase scores, but they need to find another way – and REALIZE A PROPER, NUTRITIOUS MEAL HELPS THE SCORES TOO! It probably makes a bigger difference, minute for minute, than any core subject minute of instruction.
My son’s healthiest lunch option (that he will eat) is a chicken Ceasar salad. He used to take it about once a week, and I was thrilled he would actually eat healthy while at school! This year, he says, “No Mom, no time for salad this year. Takes too long”
Healthy eating DOES take longer. We’re making lunch periods shorter. Recess shorter….and class times are longer. Where will it stop? What a drag to be a student today, huh?
Don’t get me wrong, I do realize the importance of education and am a HUGE proponent of it. We make it a priority in our house, but where will it stop? How much is too much? Who is the child’s advocate in the board room? Who is speaking up for a student’s right to EAT in the middle of a long day of studies?
Try giving US Gov’t employees a 15 min lunch in the middle of their 8 hour day and see how well that goes over.
USA today has it right (article below). I’m so glad it was printed! Just Aug of 2011, so this is definitely a hot issue right now, sadly so. We need more of this out there – in venues that draw attention, like national publications. Who works in those fields???
http://yourlife.usatoday.com/parenting-family/story/2011/08/Students-feel-rushed-at-school-lunch/50027612/1
Carol Workley says
Thank you for this blog. I am a Food Service Manager at a High School in St. Petersburg, Fl. We have converted ourselves from a very warm and inviting lunch situation to a mere footrace for food. We used to have 4 half hour lunch periods per day to accomodate 1400-1500 students at our school, we then went to 1 ‘end of the day’ lunch period of 20 minutes, and vending machines all over the school – the students could either eat lunch or go home – their choice. Now, we have 1 lunch period in the middle of the day that lasts 25 minutes for 1400+ people. We still have the vending machines and are going to be installing a vending machine that serves ‘full meals’ and can be accessed biometrically (palm scan) by all students including the ones that are participating in the free/reduced lunch program.
We have begun programming these young adults to ‘eat on the run’ and that eating out of a vending machine is okay. We all know that out there in the real world, these young adults are going to encounter vending machines that don’t all of the most nurtritious foods like the ones we have at our schools. My fear is when they get a job with a high-end company and have that hour long lunch break – they won’t even know how to act or interact with others at a real sit down lunch.
There is no way you’ll ever convince me that this is ‘good for our students’. I also don’t see how it could possibly be a factor in ‘improving’ test scores.
The reason for these changes at our school were because of administrators not having enough time in their day to get their work done due to having to be out there at lunch duty. that what I was told at the time, anyway.
Thank you again,
Carol
Bettina Elias Siegel says
Carol:
Wow. That is a truly depressing story, but apparently not uncommon. E.g., I was surprised to learn that many high schools here in Houston have a single lunch hour for thousands of kids and this is one reason schools are turning a blind eye to the illegal junk food sold on campus as fundraisers. If the food weren’t sold and everyone flooded the lunch room, there would be no way to serve them.
Meanwhile, I shudder to think what a school meal sold through a vending machine looks like! 🙁
Thanks for coming by The Lunch Tray – I greatly value the input of readers who are school food professionals and can share their real world experiences.
Teresa Albee says
I also am a Food Service Manager at a High School in Pinellas Park Florida. I would consider myself one of the lucky High Schools who have wonderful Administrators who are truley dedicated to the students in my school. We offer two 30min lunches every day. It bothers me to know that even in the same district it is different strokes for different schools. Why is this? Why is a student here at my school allowed to have time to eat and have a moment during the day to regroup, when other high schools around us are expecting students who get up at 4 or 5am to wait till the end of the day to be able to eat lunch and hey if your hungry buy something out of the vending machine. We can blame No Child Left behind, we can blame testing, we can say nobody wants to do lunch duty or even that it would cost money, but aren’t we sending a mixed message to our children? Can we honestly say that no child is being left behind?
Bettina Elias Siegel says
Teresa — I, too, have been surprised by disparities among schools in the same district. But might it not depend on the size of the total student population, the size of the lunch room, etc?
marty says
Schools are not required to have cafeterias. Additional time would be available if students brown-bagged their lunches.
Tony says
Our school ran into the problem with kids rushing through lunch so they would have more time to play at recess. Also our kids would have to eat in their snow clothes, hot and sweaty from playing hard outside and then changing temperatures from cold to warm. Our school switched it up, they now have recess first and then lunch. This makes the kids hungrier, also they are not rushing to get out and play, plus they can take off the winter clothes. They get about 25 minutes for recess and 20 minutes for hot lunch. I think that this is not enough time, as sometimes kids will wait 7-10 minutes for there hot lunch, especially on pizza days. At least it is a start.
kim Trevino says
Wow…
Ive homeschooled my oldest child for two years and after adding to our family a lil brother and sister we fell behind and i felt i i wasn’t doing what was best for his education so by the time his little brother was ready for k. We looked into public school..both boys were very excited by the way which made me feel safer since we are a very very clos clan..lol
So first day of school for me was horrible i broke dow in tears leaving them.so i called my husband to cry he said “honey calm down you can go to lunch and see them everyday”so with that i lwft assured lunch was coming soon…that’s where my nightmare
kim Trevino says
Began i showed up to hear the first words from the secretary are you can come see them but dont make it a habit..i was stunned..these are my children and your telling me on their first day of school dont make it a habit of coming to visit your child….so i went to eat lunch with my boys to see these teachers and unqualified volunteers treating these 5and 7year olds like 27 yr old army men&women…i left wondering where is the respect the ask of our children to be returned to our children….what do i do? This is not my only problem with lunch but im lost at what to do w/ having to move my children school…please help with advice i don’t wanna move them please help
Bettina Elias Siegel says
Hi Kim: Sometimes schools prefer that you not visit a young child at lunch, particularly at the beginning of the kindergarten year, so that if there is separation anxiety the child doesn’t have to experience it twice in one day. That might be what they were trying to tell you (though obviously not very nicely!) But in terms of the tone used by the lunch room volunteers — I will say that my two kids are now old veterans of public elementary school lunch rooms and they’ve certainly endured their share of barking lunch room monitors. (We had one guy who was very militaristic, just as you’re describing.) But I’ve found that this doesn’t seem to affect most kids in a serious way – in fact, I suspect my kids sort of grooved on the “drama” and relished telling me about what mean Mr. So and So had done that day. So first make sure that the worry you’re feeling is justified. Are your kids seeming upset by it? If so, my suggestion would be to speak to your school’s principal and raise your concerns. Obviously you need to feel 100% comfortable about where you’re sending your kids and their treatment while there. Good luck!
BJ Brown says
This issue is just the tip of the iceberg. I am trying to rally politicians to pass federal laws concerning inadequate lunch and recess breaks. Recess was taken out of many school systems and is now only 20 min. in some schools. It should be 30. Homework is also hours starting in second grade in some schools. NCLB is the worst thing that has happened to this country. ADHD is misdiagnosed due to all of these factors. 1 out of 3 boys and many girls in VA are on antipsychotics that shrink the frontal lobe, cause insomnia, cardiac issues, diabetes, hypertension and many other problems. I live in Northern VA and things are out of control concerning the education of our children. It happens in private and public schools.
Bettina Elias Siegel says
As is often the case, the discussion on this post is happening over on TLT’s Facebook page. Feel free to chime in there or here.